Rebut 1

I shall rebut my opponents responses question by question.

First, I asked A this question, “Could you give me an example of an Apostolic Tradition, what doctrine it affects, and proof that the tradition comes from Paul or one of the apostles?” My opponent responded by citing quotes from Justin Martyr, Clement, and Irenaeus as evidence of a belief in apostolic tradition.

In the first quote by Justin Martyr, A offers a “proof” for an unwritten apostolic tradition which was instituted into church practice. This, however, demonstrates that A did not understand my question.

A reads into Justin Martyr’s words. Justin is not offering this as a proof of an unwritten Tradition in the Roman Catholic sense, nor is he presenting this practice as an infallible truth. We who espouse Sola Scriptura do not say there is anything wrong with tradition. I, as a Reformed Baptist, have certain liturgical traditions that I observe. Where we part ways with the Roman Catholic is with regards to what role tradition has as a rule of faith and practice. We do not espouse “Tradition” to being equal to Scripture or to being another infallible rule of faith. If A wishes to cast any doubt on my assertions of Scripture alone, then he must demonstrate the existence of a rule of faith equal to Scripture in inspiration.

My question to A is for evidence of an unwritten “Tradition” which can be verifiably proven to be from Paul or from Peter, etc. and which specifically outlines a doctrine binding upon the believer which Scripture does not discuss.

The next quote given by A is from Clement. This quote once again fails to demonstrate a doctrine which is not in Scripture, was transmitted through “Tradition” and can be demonstrated to being apostolic in origin. Furthermore, my opponent’s use of this quote to prove apostolic succession is a historical and interpretive fallacy on his part, but that’s for another debate.

The final quotes given to answer my question comes from Irenaeus. In response to the first paragraph, my answers to A’s questions give the interpretation of what Irenaeus is arguing. The next couple of paragraphs follow in the same line. But once again, no concrete doctrine which is extra-Scriptural and apostolic is proven. Rather, if we are to accept the Roman Catholic interpretation of Irenaeus, at the very best we have support for the idea of tradition. But that is even questionable.

Secondly, I asked A, “Could you give me any evidence that the oral message of Paul differed in any way from the written message?” A’s answer was to demonstrate that what was spoken was probably an expansion upon what was written, not a contradiction. I was not trying to establish a contradiction at all, and perhaps I worded my question poorly. Rather, I was trying to make a point. The Roman Catholic apologist has no proof even of what the oral message of Paul was. It was not concretely laid down in any manner which can be traced back to him. The only authoritative and certain record we have of the teachings of the apostles is found in Scripture.

Thirdly, I asked my opponent, “Could you tell me how you know the Roman Catholic Church is the True Church without engaging in private interpretation?” His response to me was as follows:

“I do not become the sole arbiter of truth, but submit to which has authority over me, which is the Church. Submitting and conforming to the Truth is NOT private interpretation. I do not claim that "Peter is the Pope in Matthew 16:18" as if I was the judge, but I conformed to what the Church teaches.”

What A demonstrates is that he had to use private judgment in order to ascertain that Rome is the authority under which he should submit. I ask this question to show the fallacy a Roman Catholic commits when he uses this argument against Sola Scriptura, “But you are left with nothing but your private interpretation of Scripture, whereas we have an infallible authority to exegete Scripture for us.” What it comes down to is this: Which authority will we submit ourselves to? The theopneustos (God-breathed) Scriptures, or one “infallible human authority.” And how does the Roman Catholic know that his infallible authority is true, and not Salt Lake City (Mormonisn) or Brooklyn (Watchtower Society)? He must use his private judgment to interpret which he feels is telling the truth. The very thing he throws up in the face of the adherent to Sola Scriptura, he himself is guilty of.

Rebut 4

Fourthly, my opponent was asked, “If an infallible human authority is needed to define doctrine and tradition for God's people, what infallible human authority did the people of the Old Testament have to refer to?” A answers:

“I never said that infallible human authority is needed to define doctrine and tradition for God’s people. However, Jesus MADE an infallible Church that defines doctrine. God made the OT Church with authority, and they needed to submit to that authority. Jesus also built a new Church with authority, and we need to submit to that authority. The difference is that the OT Church was never called the pillar and foundation of truth, or God never told the Prophets or the OT Church that whatever they bind was bound in heaven.”

My point is this, that if an infallible human authority (be it the Church, Magisterium, etc) was required in order to know and discern truth, then why was God’s people who existed pre-Christ left without an infallible human authority or Magisterium? My opponent dances around this issue with unbacked assertions, failing to demonstate that the Old Testament Church possessed exactly what the Roman Catholic apologist asserts the New Testament Church must have.

To answer what my opponent does say, never does Jesus say that his Church will be infallible and never does he assign a Magisterium to act as interpretive head over the Church. Furthermore, my opponent proceeds to engage in Scriptural eisegesis (reading his doctrines into the text of Scripture) when he insinuates that the statements “pillar and foundation” and “bind and loose” are evidence that the New Testament church needs an infallible human authority. The apostolic Church does hold up the Truth, she does support it and defend it. And the testimony it is built on is the testimony of the apostles who were given the authority from Christ to act as his representatives. But it is a non sequitur to state that this supports the entire plethora of Roman Catholic dogmas and practices which come out of this simple testimony of Scripture.

Rebut 5

Lastly, I presented this question to A, “If an infallible list of canon is needed to determine which books are Scripture, how did the people who lived before Christ know books like Isaiah or Ezekiel were Scripture?” My opponent responded:

“Another straw man argument that will not prove Sola Scriptura. The Old Testament people of God knew Isaiah or Ezekiel were Scripture by submitting to the authority of the Old Testament Church. However, the Old Testament Church did not make a canon, and the Hebrew canon was in dispute for a long time.”

I hardly see how this is a straw man argument and neither does my opponent demonstrate how this is a straw man. Rather I am demonstrating the fallacy of the RC apologist who states that, in order to know the canon conclusively, one needs an infallible authority to hand us an infallible list of canon. I suppose that no one knew what Scripture was until the 1500’s AD when the Council of Trent finally put down an “infallible pronouncement” of the canon of Scripture. Furthermore, my opponent equivocates, first saying that the Old Testament church knew Scripture by submitting to the Church’s authority then saying Hebrew canon was in dispute for a long time. This would cast some doubt on the authority of the Old Testament Church, no doubt.

I submit that my opponent’s answers further show the futility of the Roman Catholic position.

See A's Answers Here

Julie Staples